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(83)
--Whose duty was it to see that the book was balanced?
A.-The auditor's.
Q.-Or head of the department?
A.-The auditor.
Mr. Bird.-Alves had entire charge of the books?
A.--Entire charge of the Rent Roll, and the power to give a receipt.
Q.--He could take away the books?
A. Yes, I think so.
was balanced?
Mr. Thurburn.-Up to what
A.-I do not know,
Q.-year do
you
know of
your own knowledge that the book
-You only know that it ought to have been?
A. Yes.
Q.-Do
you see any reason why it should not have been? Should it have taken six
or twelve months?
A.---It would take a little time, within three months it ought to be balanced.
Mr. Thurburn.-Who was auditor up to 1887?
A.-The local auditor.
The Chairman.--The auditor generally was the Colonial Secretary?
A.---Yes.
Q.-The man who actually did the work was Freire?
A. Yes, and Ribeiro. Ribeiro used to audit the Rent Roll. He retired in 1890 and died shortly afterwards.
Q.--Do
you
know at all how be used to audit, what was his system?
A.-He used to compare the counterfoil with the entry in the book, Lot No. so-and-so and look at the Rent Roll and make a tick.
Q.-He did not see whether everything in the book was paid into the Bank?
A.-I don't know. I don't think so.
Mr. Bird.-You are not certain whether the book was balanced in 1885 or any year
up to 1889 within three months?
A.--No, I am not certain.
Mr. Thurburn.-It was the Treasurer's duty to see that it was done?
A.-I
suppose so.
The Chairman.-Why do you say it should be done within three months? Was there no Government order to that effect?
A.-I say three months because it would take about that time. There is a lot of work in connection with it.
Mr. Thurburn.-There is no reason why it should not be balanced twice a year?
A.--I don't think so.
The Chairman.-You could have it balanced every six months?
A. Yes, the totals received should correspond with the book.
Mr. Thurburn.-If it is properly balanced and compared with the amount paid into
the Bank that is a complete check?
A. Yes. Besides that there is what is called the Daily Crown Rent receipts. At the close of the day I will ask the shroff "What did you receive from Crown Rents?"
He would say perhaps "$629.43" and then he will go to Alves and if the amount corresponded with Alves' I will enter it in my book.
Mr. Bird.-What did you enter it in?
A.-I entered it in the cash book.
Q.-You kept the cash book?
A.-Yes.
Q.-You did not keep the ledger?
A.-Alves and every clerk kept a general ledger.
The Chairman.---Who made out the slip for paying into the Bank?
A.--I did.
Q.--You used to see that the money was paid in?
A.-Yes.
Mr. Thurburn.--You never kept money in the Treasury over night?
A.-We had to sometimes. After we closed the book about 2 o'clock the shroff went to the Bank about 2.30 p.m. and if between 2.30 and 4 o'clock, when the Office closed, anyone brought money we were bound to receive it.
Q.-But nothing more than that?
A.--No.
The Chairman.--Then you had no means of checking whether the amount they gave you was the correct amount?
A.--No.
Q.--You depended upon the shroff and Alves?
A. Yes.
Q.-And if Alves chose to receive money and not pay it over there was no check, because you could not find it out?
A.-No.
Mr. Thurburn.-Besides Crown Rents were there any other receipts that you direct into the Treasury from the public?
A. Yes, licences were received into the Treasury.
Q.-From where?
A.--From the public direct.
Q.--And who gave receipts for them?
A.-The third clerk granted a receipt for spirit licences.
Q.--Was there
check any
upon
that amount?
A. They have a book, the registry book.
Q.-But there is no means of balancing it?
A.-I don't know.
The Chairman.-Who delivers the licences?
A.--The Colonial Secretary, the Treasury receives the fee.
The Chairman.-Then you have a check?
Mr. Thurburn.---There is a book of the same kind for other licences?
A.-Yes, for pawnbrokers and all sorts.
received
683
( 82 )
( 83 )
--Whose duty was it to see that the book was balanced?
A.-The auditor's.
Q.-Or head of the department?
A.-The auditor.
Mr. Bird.-Alves had entire charge of the books?
A.--Entire charge of the Rent Roll, and the power to give a receipt.
Q.--He could take away the books?
A. Yes, I think so.
was balanced?
Mr. Thurburn.-Up to what
A.-I do not know,
Q.-
year do
you
know of
your own knowledge that the book
-You only know that it ought to have been?
A. Yes.
Q.-Do
you see any reason why it should not have been? Should it have taken six
or twelve months?
A.---It would take a little time, within three months it ought to be balanced.
Mr. Thurburn.-Who was auditor up to 1887?
A.-The local auditor.
The Chairman.--The auditor generally was the Colonial Secretary?
A.--- Yes.
Q.-The man who actually did the work was Freire ?
A. Yes, and Ribeiro. Ribeiro used to audit the Rent Roll. He retired in 1890 and died shortly afterwards.
Q.--Do
you
know at all how be used to audit, what was his system?
A.-He used to compare the counterfoil with the entry in the book, Lot No. so- and-so and look at the Rent Roll and make a tick.
Q.-He did not see whether everything in the book was paid into the Bank ? A.-1 don't know. I don't think so.
Mr. Bird.You are not certain whether the book was balanced in 1885 or any year
up to 1889 within three months?
A.--No, I am not certain.
Mr. Thurburn. It was the Treasurer's duty to see that it was done?
A.-I
suppose so.
The Chairman.-Why do you say it should be done within three months? Was there no Government order to that effect?
A.I say three months because it would take about that time. There is a lot of work in connection with it.
Mr. Thurburn.There is no reason why it should not be balanced twice a year? A.--I don't think so.
The Chairman. You could have it balanced every six months?
A. Yes, the totals received should correspond with the book.
Mr. Thurburn. If it is properly balanced and compared with the amount paid into
the Bank that is a complete check?
A. Yes. Besides that there is what is called the Daily Crown Rent receipts. At the close of the day I will ask the shroff What did you receive from Crown Rents?"
*
C
He would say perhaps $629.43" anal then he will go to Alves and if the amount corresponded with Alves' I will enter it in my Look.
Mr. Bird.What did you enter it in? A-1 entered it in the cash book.
Q.-You kept the cash book?
A.-Yes.
Q.-You did not keep the ledger?
A.-Alves and every clerk kept a general ledger.
The Chairman.---Who made out the slip for paying into the Bank?
A.--I did.
Q.--You used to see that the money was paid in?
A. -Yes.
Mr. Thurburn.--You never kept money in the Treasury over night?
A.-We had to sometimes. After we closed the book about 2 o'clock the shroff went to the Bank about 2.30 p.m. and if between 2.30 and 4 o'clock, when the Office closed, anyone brought money we were bound to receive it.
Q-But nothing more than that?
A.--No.
The Chairman.--Then you had no means of checking whether the amount they gave you was the correct amount?
A.--No.
Q.-- You depended upon the shroff and Alves?
A. Yes.
Q-And if Alves chose to receive money and not pay it over there was no check, because you could not find it out ?
A.-No.
Mr. Thurburn. Besides Crown Rents were there any other receipts that you direct into the Treasury from the public?
A. Yes, licences were received into the Treasury.
Q-From where ?
A.--From the public direct.
Q.--And who gave receipts for them?
A.-The third clerk granted a receipt for spirit licences. Q.--Was there
check any
upon
that amount?
A. They have a book, the registry book. Q-But there is no means of balancing it? A.-1 don't know.
The Chairman. Who delivers the licences ?
A.--The Colonial Secretary, the Treasury receives the fee.
The Chairman.-Then you have a check?
Mr. Thurburn.---There is a book of the same kind for other licences? A.-Yes, for pawnbrokers and all sorts.
received
683
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